Filed under: Creative writing, Macquarie University,

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I think that a lot of the writing being published today is dominated by publishers and salespeople and whilst they have their merits, unfortunately, most of them probably aren't trained in academias of writing and reading critically. I was asked a few months ago to help edit a creative published work and I was very surprised. It was sensationalist fiction filled with grammatical errors, story lines that weren't thought through, characters that were cliches and a writer who totally fictionalised- and was mainly historically ignorant to- a very troublesome time in history in which the characters were placed. The publisher gave 'rave reviews' and apparently the book preceding it was a 'bestseller'. I have completed a degree in English Literature which I completed creative writing courses. I went on to complete Honours in English Literature which was made up of a critical theoretical component and a creative work that had to be linked with the theory I had chosen. Over the years and years of reading you discover the joys of reading and also discover that there is a difference between a well- written and a badly written piece. And NO you don't have to accept Shakespeare as your favourite writer just because he belongs to the canon. There are a few that belong to that mysterious group that I will NEVER like; although the ability to think critically and reason is invaluable. Creative writing courses help you sift through your ideas, give you an insight into peer reviews, let you experiment with different forms of writing, expose you to other people's writing and current ideas, let you know what people don't understand about your work, what you've left out, what you should take out, and how we as readers have been programmed to read as culturally constructed respondents in English. Educating yourself is one of the greatest gifts available to humans. You don't have to do a course to be a writer- but think about great artists who continually improve their skills - most throughout history have gone to art school or have been trained in a specialist fashion. Think about fashion designers, singers, even something technological that requires creativity like a gaming software designer - they all went to be trained in specially designed courses. Why would you not want to give yourself the best chance at success- even if it is to scratch an old personal itch?

Rebecca Garnsey - March 2, 2010

Every undergraduate student who intends to pursue a career in writing (be it creative, technical or academic) would benefit from enrolling in at least one creative writing class at Macquarie. The classes are hard work - there is little time for sitting around in plastic chairs staring at whiteboards!Some of the rewards you can expect; invaluable critical reading skills, structurally sound arguments and an improved recognition of underlying flaws and bad habits in your own writing. In reply to Ms Pryor's 'attack' on Postgrad Creative Writing students, I take issue with her following statement: "First, funding writers through postgraduate creative writing qualifications skews funding in favour of writers who already have university degrees, with all the particulars of personality, life experience and class that goes with it." What does she base this claim on? It is my understanding that the greater majority of Creative PhD students come to their doctorate from diverse backgrounds and have vastly different life experience. Her next point "Secondly, it skews funding in favour of the gutless. Enrolling in a postgraduate writing course is a hedge against failure, costing thousands of dollars, for those who are too scared to take off a year to get on with it and write" is just plain ignorant. PhD students ARE getting on with it. There is nothing gutless about undertaking three to four years of hard work with very little hope of employment at the end (either as a writer, or a teacher). Perhaps journalists can live on air, but if I took a year off I'm not sure how I would feed my children? Once upon a time (what would Elmore say to that?) it would not have been possible to combine my enjoyment of learning and my love of creative writing. I am enrolled in a Creative PhD at Macquarie, and far from being frightened of failure, I feel excited about my project and my future.

Kathleen Steele - March 2, 2010

Thank you Steven for opening up this discussion. I too read Lisa Pryor's article in the SMH on Saturday and was disappointed to once again see such ill informed opinion about university writing courses being wheeled out in the press about. But I see here that I can leave it to my students and former students to provide the strongest possible counter arguments. Creative writing in universities contributes to genuine learning about writing and critical skills; it contributes to Australian literature and to research in creative arts and writing; it teaches students to be good writers and engaged, participatory, reflective, learners. Many Macquarie writing students have had their work published in reputable magazines, literary journals and anthologies. I take great pride in the work and achievements of our creative writing students at all levels and feel privileged to teach in this area. And yes, I publish my own writing too - but supporting my writing is not the reason I teach. It's my students who each year make me want to come back to teach more.

Marcelle Freiman - March 2, 2010

Creative writing is a bit like talking. People who have passed on. And people far away. Or someone across the street. Unless its been plagiarised almost all writings creative. I enjoy writing when its organic. A few spelling mistakes I find gives writing character. Perfect equals boring. Some of the finest works of art we're from the least perfect origins. I was having a sneak peak at, "China's roads. A Voyage of discovery." "Its not the way the soups made; but how it tastes." This book is about rural farm routes of travel. Something pretty basic. But with passion and artistry something that would seem fairly boring. "Was at the top of my to buy list."

Al - March 4, 2010

Yes indeed, thanks Steven for opening this up, and to the students who have responded here. "Creative writing programs are slow moving targets", the late Glenda Adams, multi award winning Australian novelist and long time teacher of creative writing both at Columbia University and at UTS, Sydney, said to me when some other journalist had sprayed at a creative writing program. (It must have been the late 1990s. So little changes!) It's easy to demean student writers for being wanna-be's and just as easy to make the same claim about their teachers. But, as a “cw” teacher at postgraduate and undergraduate level for many years (and with four books published by trade publishers, along with academic papers, etc) I'd like to offer this alternative picture to that given by Lisa Pryor in the SMH last Saturday. My aim as a teacher, shared by many in creative writing in Australia, is that our students develop their skills as writers, thinkers and readers, so that they are able and independent communicators, in whatever field of writing they find themselves, be it creative or policy or curriculum design, etc. Of course, we're thrilled when our students are published, as they are, but that's not the purpose of our teaching: we are not here to only produce elites. Undergraduate students love creative writing courses, not the least as a respite from academic writing: creative writing learning engages them in thinking methods which privilege their individual creativity. As such, it is a valuable part of the spectrum of university learning and teaching that ranges from knowledge transmission to experiential learning. The writing and critical thinking skills that they develop, I tell them, will also enhance their communications in the workplace. These skills are generic and not specific to any particular creative genre (such as the short story). Young and soon to graduate, it is a double reward for these students to enjoy the learning and see that it will also have practical application in the varied knowledge economies that many of them will soon be working in. Students are drawn to the more intensive postgraduate coursework creative writing programs because they want to talk about, think about and learn about writing, and of course to have their own writing extended and challenged. That statement is true of all of them. They want to be part of a writing community (not a clique) and to meet with others who love what they love: writing. Most have been writing for years on their own. I admire them for their passion and am humbled by their solitary diligence. A minority express the desire or expectation to become a published. And if they do want to get published: good on them. Most creative writing lecturers have connections in one or more areas of the publishing industry through their own publishing history; and as with other fields such as science or education, we’re keen to work with industry where possible. (Our most recently published graduate is Mary-Ellen Mullane, whose novel Once On A Road was published this month by Vintage.) At PhD level, some students want to go on to academic employment because they love the intellectual rigour and challenges that a university community provides, and have enjoyed their early forays into teaching. Some postgraduates are established or emerging published writers who nevertheless want to extend their skills and knowledge of writing, or explore a nonfiction project as part of their creative PhD. Universities are being encouraged by communities and Government to create pathways to university for non-traditional students. The kinds of students we teach is broadening. Increasingly, students are entering university with a varied range of skills, life experience and academic achievement. In the Faculty of Arts, we are currently developing policies around alternative pathways for higher degree students in the creative fields of music, media, and writing, that will support these very varied students achieve academic and creative excellence (some indigenous, some older artists, some young and brilliant writers without an Honours degree, etc). Lisa Pryor turns also to the issue of bursaries for creative writing PhD candidates, implicitly suggesting they should be separated from the main, and that there is a university funding rort going on here. Creative PhD students, like all other higher degree students, can compete nationally for scholarships. If they’re outstanding, they may get one. That creative writing programs are so popular is not testimony to the dishonesty of intention within universities, as Lisa Pryor suggests, but to the power of words, and our very human fascination with them; and not at all prosaically, to the globalised growth of the creative industries and information economies to which Australia is very much a contributor.

Jane Messer - March 5, 2010

There is a benefit to a university writing program. However, I have sometimes felt that the classes are not geared towards this benefit. Macquarie University has such a range of writing programs: Creative Writing in English, Print Media in Media, Writing Project which encourages a complete manuscript. But in each of these courses, the same approach is taken to writing. Students write in response to the readings for the week, come to class and discuss their writing by reading it out. A little bit of constructive criticism is given, but most of it is "Oh wow, that was really great." A nice sentiment to hear, but completely useless to progressing as a writer. From the writing classes at Macquarie I learned a few things. I learned how to take and give good constructive criticism in what was Print Media I, mostly as a result of an amazing tutor who focused exclusively on improving writing style in this way. I learned how to experiment in Creative Writing I, where once again my tutor encouraged me to try multiple styles of writing. The only use of Writing Project was to find a group of writers I could bounce ideas off of and critically analyse one another's works (something we were not doing in class). From the other classes, I learned nothing. We would be much better suited to focus each of these writing classes on a specific aspect of writing. I think every writer should have a few skills under their belt: Every writer should know the art of creative writing. Sure there are some naturals who just 'get it', but as a teaching institution we should have a unit focussing on the rules. Not everyone learns these in High School, and for some writers High School was a long time ago. The difference between Active and Passive, Classifiers and Descriptors, the proper use of a semi-colon, comma, or full stop, what a clause is, and how to spell! These skills are scattered between Linguistics, English, and Media. And they are usually only taught because the tutor believes them important. Every writer should know how to give and take detailed criticism, and how to distance themselves enough from their own work to see its flaws. As it stands, tutorial groups are either too passive in their criticism (something which needs to be encouraged through example by the tutors) or when they split into smaller groups are unwilling to criticise in case they insult each other. Every writer should know how to structure, restructure, and create an extended work. There is a big difference between making the final assignment a 2000 word extraction of an imagined manuscript and handing in the manuscript itself. This takes more than a semester to write. And finally, every writer should know how to expand their own horizons. Creative Writing I and II sought to do this: one by encouraging students to write in a variety of ways (don't use E's, write like Chandler, write only dialogue, write flowery description, etc) and the other by encouraging students to read outside of their comfort zone. Again this is completely up to the tutor. As it stands, yes there are some serious problems with the writing courses at a tertiary level. They are not useful, and the skills hidden within them are spread so thinly between so many courses that it's difficult to figure out what the aim of any of the courses actually is. Sure Ms. Pryor is harsh on these classes and their teachers, but she has a valid point. If these classes are not worth it (and I've found my money and time wasted on half the creative writing classes I've taken) maybe we should look at what will change that.

Shannon Kelly - March 7, 2010

Hi Steven I think that anyone who believes doing a creative writing course is going to teach them how to write creatively is deluding themselves; however, what it can do is (a) challenge them to write for genres they wouldn't normally attempt and (b) provide peer feedback on their writing, which is invaluable. Having said that, the blogosphere does execute on this last function particularly well and probably far more honestly than a tute group would. Overall though, perhaps the greatest benefit of doing such a course at uni, if nothing else, is to counter-balance the channelling of mind into other, possibly, drier subjects. Thought-provoking post. Thanks. Karen

Karen Price - November 28, 2010

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